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Breaking Down Housing Barriers: From MLK to Modern Disability Access with Realtor Bruce

• Angela

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Discover how MLK's fair housing legacy shapes today's fight for disability-accessible homes. Expert realtor Vince Bruce shares insider tips on navigating real estate with disabilities, fair housing laws, and affordable housing solutions in 2025. Learn how MLK's fight for fair housing continues through modern advocacy for disability-accessible home ownership and rental opportunities.

EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS: THE EVOLUTION OF FAIR HOUSING

  • How MLK's housing advocacy shapes modern disability rights
  • Understanding Fair Housing vs. ADA in private residences
  • Latest updates on NAR commission structures (2025)

NAVIGATING REAL ESTATE WITH DISABILITIES

  • Expert tips for finding disability-friendly realtors
  • Key questions to ask during your housing search
  • Understanding universal design in home buying

INSIDE REAL ESTATE INDUSTRY CHANGES

  • New commission structures affecting specialized services
  • Affordable housing solutions including ADUs
  • Working with disability-focused housing organizations

EXPERT INSIGHTS FROM: Vincent "Bruce" Brusio

  • Licensed Coldwell Banker Realtor
  • Helping Hand Foundation CEO
  • Disability Housing Advocate
  • Special Needs Parent

ESSENTIAL RESOURCES: QUICK CONTACT:

  • Vince Brusio: 410-948-9857
  • Website: realitywithvince.com and https://carrollcf.fcsuite.com/erp/donate/creae/fund?funit_id=2881 

REFERENCED ORGANIZATIONS:

  • Maryland Inclusive Housing
  • Department of Justice Real Estate Updates
  • Accessible Dwelling Unit Programs

For transcript, click here. 
#DisabilityHousing #FairHousingRights #AccessibleHomes #RealEstate2024 #UniversalDesign #DisabilityRights #MLKLegacy #HousingEquity

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Speaker 1:

Welcome to AI Home Podcast, the first podcast for real estate resources and independent living strategies for the disability community. Why? Because accessibility is home. Hi, I'm Angela Fox, blogger, author and your host. Now let's begin. All right, Thank you everyone. Again, this is Angela Fox. I am sitting in my bathroom because at Horizontal Houses, we know accessibility in a home goes beyond the bathroom. He will introduce himself, but for individuals who are visually impaired, I will describe what I look like. I am a middle-aged white woman with brown hair. I have a leopard dress with a black necklace. I'm sitting in an electric automobile wheelchair, sitting, obviously, in my bedroom. Bruce, would you like to say hello to the audience and describe yourself?

Speaker 2:

Hello there, audience Describing myself. I'm a bald white guy, 56 years old, sitting here in my plaid shirt and khaki shorts. I'm currently here in my den surrounded by movie posters, because I used to work in the comic book industry. So I'm the Punisher. I'm looking at Spider-Man with the Joker, wonder Woman all the great superheroes have a lot of experience working with Marvel at DC. But now I'm going by several different names. One of them, bruce, which I've been taking a shine to. My full name is Vincent Amiel. Salvatore Borizio Try to say that three times fast.

Speaker 1:

No, kidding, that's why I got you go by Bruce. That's right. Yeah, I was like I'll just let you introduce your full name, cause I'm like I will butcher that. I appreciate you saying hello to everybody. We met at this fabulous disability expo in Prince George's County in Maryland and there was a lot of great booths, individuals there and I remember I'm wheeling by and I see you at a booth and it's a realtor helping the disability community find housing and I was super excited to see you there and I know we just immediately struck up a conversation. But for those who are listening, who don't know you, why don't you tell a little bit about yourself? What do you do?

Speaker 2:

What I do now is wear a couple hats. One of those hats is a licensed realtor for Colwell Banker Realty. Her office is located in Westminster, maryland. I've been doing real estate since 2020. The other hat that I wear is to as the president and CEO of a 501c3 nonprofit called the Helping Hand Foundation. And the reason why I started the Helping Hand Foundation is because, as we came out of the pandemic after publishing the comic book that I did for those who were trying to lessen their anxiety over COVID-19, I started finding that I wanted to take my real estate business in a very definite direction, which was to help people like my daughter. She has autism and I very much wanted to cater my business so that I focused on trying to bring my services to those who needed a leg up, somebody who could talk street and keep things simple for them, because real estate can be very complicated. So I started practicing. Yeah, in 2020, when we went into lockdown, perfect timing yeah into lockdown.

Speaker 1:

Perfect timing, yeah, perfect timing, Perfect timing Bruce.

Speaker 2:

Can't sell a house if you can't leave your own because there's this bug floating around.

Speaker 2:

So I started the 501c3 nonprofit because, as a realtor, because of the fair housing laws, there are some things you can't talk about, some conversations you can't have. There are housing laws, there are some things you can't talk about, some conversations you can't have. So I found out, though, that if I wore the hat of somebody who was running a nonprofit, I had more liberty to talk about some issues. So that's the thing. I make sure that, whatever kind of conversation that I want to have with an individual, I make sure that I'm operating in the best capacity, that the hat that I'm wearing is appropriate to the conversation. Went to school for a list that's my background in terms of my studies, got my bachelor's and master's at Towson, and so, very attentive to the nature of language one should use when talking about certain topics, I'm very sensitive to those kinds of conversations, so that's what I pride myself in doing when I work with individuals. Who wants to have a one-on-one conversation with somebody who gets it?

Speaker 1:

And you know what I could have used you back in 2013 because I was trying to looking for a home myself. I'm in a wheelchair and it was towards the end of the recession. I started to get out a little bit and I went through a lot of realtors that just didn't even know. When I said universal design or accessible house, they couldn't talk the street, they really didn't know. And I will never forget the time where I had a realtor and then she said my colleague will be helping you get into the home. And the individual showed up I'm not playing with a wheelbarrow to get me inside a home, not a ramp. In fact, it wasn't even up on the Midwest originally. It's not even like the steel wheelbarrow that I'm used to with the farmer literally across my family's house. It was actually an orange snow wheelbarrow. It was meant to put snow in, so it wasn't even the most studious, but I remember it was bright orange, hard plastic. So then I realized at that point, working with realtors, even trying to get them on board to free a ramp, if there's only one or two steps and I'm looking for a single family home Certain things I needed for my disability and I ended up because I am a lawyer and the disability community is very tied where I live at a girlfriend of mine. She did a lot of employment with disabilities and her sign language interpreter had a house and she didn't want to modify, spruce it up, and she didn't actually want to have a realtor because she didn't want to pay the commission. Sorry, bruce, but my friend hooked me up with her and we haggled and I knew I could.

Speaker 1:

Speaking of wearing hats, I totally get what you imply, because even though I'm a licensed attorney in the state of maryland, I could not do the paperwork on my behalf. That would be a conflict of interest. I could do it for someone else, for a client, but not for myself. And so I negotiated with the current owner not just the price for the house but say if you are not getting commission, if you don't have any to pay for commission for a realtor, then you hire. We have a mutual, agreed upon attorney that will do all the paperwork and she would pay for that. And it all worked out. I've been in my house for 13 years, so you were mentioning about those certain conversations that you can have where you're wearing one hat and certain conversations you can wear another hat.

Speaker 2:

Can you go a little bit more detail in that, for instance I'm working with a client now who's trying to find residency in Carroll County. She has a learning disability, as do her daughter, and the way she wants to go about finding a property is to find a lease, and fair housing laws very much dictate what I can and can't say as a realtor. For instance, one of the touchy subjects that come up often are concerning service animals. Come up often are concerning service animals. There is a little bit of pliability into what constitutes an emotional support animal versus a service and sometimes things can get lost in translation. Now, for instance, you're not able to discriminate whatsoever against an individual if they have a service animal or an emotional support animal.

Speaker 2:

However, there are these animals, these dogs, that have been identified as restricted breed, so bulls, rottweilers, german shepherds. They have been labeled and still currently are, as far as I know, on BRITE, which is the national database realtors use in the field, those dogs are listed and referred to in descriptions on properties as breed restrictions that are not allowed on the property. But in one case that I had, the dog was a pit bull and there was a medical professional that signed off on the dog as a service animal, actually an emotional support animal. So the dog that's supposed to be the most destructive, the one that's supposed to be the most vicious a pit bull is labeled as emotional support and it really speaks to how, depending on how the dogs are raised and cared for.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, you can say that because the guy's wearing a black hat, he's the villain in the show but, that just happens to be the hat that was handed to him. Now, it has nothing to do with being a village, he's wearing a black hat. So you have to learn how to talk to people, fellow realtors, in any way, and say, okay, this thing's on the restricted breed list, I get it realtors this anyway and say, okay, this thing's on the restricted breed list, I get it. But here's the thing. Let me put on my nonprofit.

Speaker 2:

Let me not talk as a realtor. Now Let me put on my nonprofit. I'd say to them I want you to understand that we can have a meeting to discuss this better in detail, give you more of a history of the odor of the dog, show you that there hasn't been any history of the animal biting individuals. So you're talking about some personal, sensitive information. Now you really can't do that for a person if you represent them legally as a client. So for me, I have to be very careful sometimes about I can say this as a realtor, but I can't say this at the same time. So I'd say I want to have a separate meeting, I want to have a separate conversation and pick another day too.

Speaker 2:

I don't necessarily cross the wires about having a conversation on the same thing. Say no, we need to talk about this in another way. We're talking about something that could possibly be seen as me trying to get around fair housing laws or breed restrictions, and that's not the intent here. The intent is to try to give you a bigger picture of this individual world, the situation and how. Me myself, a part of the special needs community, understand that this is a sensitive conversation that must be put into context. For somebody. I feel more comfortable doing it as operating under the mission statement that I established for my nonprofit, which is to educate for individuals with special needs. So me, this kind of conversation totally tapped into that mission statement that I had to put on record when I formed the 501c3 to show everybody how I was operating, what my intentions were, kind of a conversation that allows me to say, yes, it's necessary to operate, sometimes just under the hat of the nonprofit, because I don't want people to think that I'm trying to skirt any rule.

Speaker 1:

So when you say skirt rules is the concern underneath fair housing? As a realtor that you are giving legal advice, is that kind of the concern cannot give legal advice, no, but it's. It's that by you having saying of a conversation about the, the, is that your concern? That it could be implied that you are trying to do a legal?

Speaker 2:

It could be implied that the term is called love letter. Somebody could interpret what I'm trying to say, as I'm actually trying to have some sort of verbal love letter that I'm putting together.

Speaker 2:

That's a term that's been used for realtors who would turn over a letter from their client and the letter would be directed towards the owner of a property, and the letter would state how the owner is very interested in acquiring the property because of C topic A, b, c, d, whatever it is that attracts them. Love letters have been, we've been told. Now love letters go away. You can't do any more, because it allows favoritism, it gives elbow room for favoritism, and in doing so, especially if you have clients that may be African-American or Hispanic, you want to be able to show that you didn't come by the client and deem that they were the person you wanted to bring on as the buyer because of any kind of favoritism.

Speaker 2:

So love letters were to the far reach of the earth, and so talking about something like oh, my client has special needs, oh, they have an emotional support animal that can generate sympathy sometimes for some people. You don't want to say that though, because, again, it's a very sensitive conversation, because me trying to advocate on somebody's behalf because of their special needs or their service animal, somebody might interpret that as oh, that sounds like a verbal love letter, and so I don't want to even open the door to that possibility. So what I say is oh no, I understood the parameters of this conversation and how it could be misinterpreted. And for that reason alone, I conducted a conversation with this person on a day separate from when I first spoke to them as a realtor. I don't even want to make the days up. I'd send an appointment the following day to speak at the president and CEO of the Helping Hand Foundation.

Speaker 1:

Not as real estate as a whole tends to not really engage with the disability community or see the disability community as any other minority that could be homeowners, the generational wealth, and when I've talked to realtors about what are you doing to market that house and some of the feedback I've gotten is concerns about what's redlined.

Speaker 1:

They don't want to and I only know a little bit about it, but don't want to. We perceive that they're targeting one community and therefore excluding another. For example, one thing that came to my mind was Facebook got into a lot of trouble when some realtors were able not on their own, hey, I want to just send to this income level, at this geography, at this zip code and that led into a red line application because it just so happened it was between the income and the zip code, generally wealthy white people who happen to live in that zip code, and so that's just an example of redlining. But I'm just curious when you say love letters, is that also another concern, as far as like when you talk about being cautious, about not being perceived to do something illegal?

Speaker 2:

That's the whole point of why I created that separate entity with the nonprofit. I don't want to do anything illegal and the rules of real estate change all the time. Otherwise they wouldn't have these committees to constantly go over the contracts with you and have monthly sales meetings.

Speaker 2:

Just recently there's been a lawsuit against NAR. Yeah, and I believe it was told to me by my broker we had our meeting, our sales meeting, two days ago, where I believe it's August 14th is going to be a red letter date when a decision is going to be made about how this whole thing is going to play out, because we're talking a multi-billion dollar lawsuit. Yeah, a billion with a B.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, in fact I can feel you and I've been following that very heavily, and that was actually going to be one of my questions to you, bruce. Believe it or not? No, it's great. No, we'll jump right in now.

Speaker 1:

So for the audience, there has been several multimillion dollar lawsuits and even department of justice filing a lawsuit. There's been state specific lawsuits and there's been state-specific lawsuits, and then there's been Department of Justice lawsuits against the National Association of Realtors, which is the largest realtor group. For those people who don't know, I think it's like almost like 70% of realtors Don't quote me on that, but it's more than a majority of realtors are members. It's more than majority of realtors are members. And so there was concerns during COVID that commissions got inflamed and the DOJ came in and said, based on NAR rules, before these lawsuits you had to be a member of the NAR. The seller of the house would be the one that would determine the commission for the seller and the buyer. And DOJ raised that was antitrust, because they're monopolizing the whole housing industry and also not allowing for competition. The buyer and the seller agent be able to haggle out the commissions. And so they said that's why the commission rates escalated significantly during COVID, not just because of House Epoop, obviously.

Speaker 1:

Nar disagreed initially and said and there's been a lot of you know, a lot of settlements have occurred. But NOAA is now trying to change that and say there should be one transparency about commissions with the individual on both sides and the seller will only determine the seller commission and the buyer will only determine the buyer commission and then the seller and the buyer will haggle it out to create that competition and commission Instead of it just being. The seller said it's going to be 4% for me, 4% for you. That's a little bit of a nutshell. But, bruce, any additional information you could share from your perspective I would love to hear. But, bruce, any additional information you could share from?

Speaker 2:

your perspective. I would love to hear this thing. I think I first heard about it last year and it started making its way through the court and there's a ton of. I guess, because of my academic background, that it's important to not be the first to report on a story or make your judgment on the story. It's more important to have the big picture as well as the details so you can make an educated decision. I don't guess about anything. I don't assume anything. I just want the facts. My favorite expression is just tell me what button to push or what lines. Where are the lines? So I make sure that I stay within the lines I want to color, within the lines. I don't want to go out of the line. So this thing's going around and there's been copycat suits I've been hearing about.

Speaker 2:

So I very much, after hearing all the different directions that this thing is going and trying to account for this transparency like you're talking about, I asked my broker a very specific question, which was hey, if this is coming down the line and we've changed forms because of it, my question to my broker was is it smart for me, because of all this turmoil, to go to my client's house, bring whatever new documents have been forged thus far to try to stop the bleeding. Should I just explain the situation to my client? Have them sign new contracts that were in compliance, because I don't want to be found. Somebody points the finger and says oh, you were sitting there and he goes well, this went down. I didn't think to question A, b, c, d, e. No, I don't want to be put into that situation, so I specifically do.

Speaker 2:

I have to get new contracts drawn as this thing moves forward Because I want to show that I'm always in compliance with whatever standards are on. And my broker said to me William Peach, my co-worker, he said Vince. He says keep the powder dry. August 14th, we've been told, is the red-letter date for when things are going to be announced in official capacity. So just stay where you are right now, at the moment, and just keep looking at your inbox for updates, whatever corporate puts out as far as updates go, so that would be the smartest advice I could give, even though I'm not allowed to give advice because I'm a realtor.

Speaker 2:

What if I had it? Your nonprofit had. I would say keep the powder dry, don't jump the gun, and this thing's going to play out, because there's just too many hands in the pot, there's just too much skin in the game. So it's going to play out come this summer.

Speaker 1:

And right now I'm just holding my breath like everybody else, just hoping this thing goes down the right way. Yeah, I do have a prediction. But before I share my prediction, how do you think this whole transparency I call transparency and renegotiation of commission, how do you think that's going to impact realtors as a whole?

Speaker 2:

It's going to be more work because you're talking about what used to be a simple back and forth, which was okay. I'm just giving you an example. Now I'm just going to use 6% as an example. Okay, the whole transaction front to back is 6% and 3.5% is going to go to the listing agent person selling the house for the client and the other 2.5% is going to go to the buyer's agent. That would be information that would be ready and available to you.

Speaker 2:

In Bright, the multiple listing service, both buyer and seller agent were looking at the same information, so there was no discrepancy about what something was. It was very black and white. I like black and white, you can color within the lines and I didn't have a problem with it and I would always tell my clients up front hey, everything is negotiable in real estate. Just because it says this doesn't mean we couldn't have a conversation, say we're in a situation here where we need to see if there's some elbow room. Those conversations were still going on between agents. That's just part of the job, but for the most part you were able to look at something and say, hey, this is within our ballpark, you can afford this property, you want to go after it. Yeah, okay, let's go after it and see if we can get it. That's the way things were working.

Speaker 2:

I've been told now that, because everything is all about, it's not about so much accountability but the transparency angle Apparently that's the bigger problem, and because you're trying to show complete and total transparency, there's a little bit more back and forth between people to make sure that nothing was misinterpreted and that everybody was always on the same page, and for that reason, to make sure that you're always in compliance and to make sure that you're always transparent, I would say you want to make sure everything's being done in email. I would say you want to make sure everything's being done in email. Looking for conversations can happen, sure, but you want to make sure that once we start. If I had to make a prediction, I would say safest conversation would be the one that has black and white letters on a white background, comes to your inbox and you can save it as a PDF or you can print it out on a piece of paper. My prediction is more people will be doing business like that. Okay, making sure that there's a clear paper trail for everything that was being discussed.

Speaker 1:

Just from my perspective, I actually at one point was considering flipping my home, like selling my home and buying a bigger home, and so I actually was selling my own home. And so I actually was selling my own home, and from a consumer perspective, I think, because things have always been done black and white, doing the marketing and trying to really ensure that the home was going to a good place. And I wasn't playing. I'm a lawyer, I wasn't a realtor, I was sold by owners. So that provided me a lot more flexibility than what a licensed realtor could do, and so I threw out there 2% and I got a lot of pushback from realtors on that because it was a standard operating procedure. That is 3%. So the whole negotiation of commissions I don't know if most individuals who are looking to buy or sell a home even consider that commissions could be negotiated like the house price itself and a lot of the articles I've been reading.

Speaker 1:

There is some prediction because with the coming of Zillow and Redfin in the last decades and everything like that and just different generations coming into play, buying homes that realtors might have to become have a list of services that they're providing and instead of being maybe commissioned as a prediction that maybe it's by the hour or you have these different services and I'm just wondering if that will then also open the door for NAR and everything to look into really expanding realtors being specialized in, something like realtors being specialized in helping with individuals who are disabilities, or stuff like that.

Speaker 1:

I just think it's going to really open the door in a lot of different ways. That could be both a headache but also exciting at the same time. So we will have to see what happens on that front.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, there's plenty of designations that you can get showing that you specialize in working with veterans, and so if they do something like that for special needs, yeah, yeah, yeah, as realtors.

Speaker 1:

how do you work with disabled clients or clients that have disabled family members?

Speaker 2:

The most important thing is to always make sure that everybody's on the same, everybody's speaking the same language and there is no discrepancy about what the intent is, what the goals are or how things should come to an agreement at the end of the day, what everybody's comfortable doing. I make sure that there's someone else besides, so the client is the one with special needs. I always make sure that there's. My term is wingman. I want to make sure that there's somebody else that I can work with that is going to assist in the communication. My daughter has autism. She's verbal and she can advocate for herself, but her receptive language is better than her expressive language, so that's the first thing I'm looking for. I mean just using my daughter as an example if my daughter wanted to get her own place.

Speaker 2:

I would hope that as she moves forward and trying to acquire a property, that myself or my wife or my son or a good close member of the family will be there with her, as the other individual in the room that can assist in the discussions that have to take place has her best interest at heart, is working on her side to make sure that she gets the best possible outcome.

Speaker 2:

To ensure that kind of dynamic is in place as I move forward in the business transaction, I give myself an extra layer of insurance by working with a company called Maryland Inclusive Housing. Tim Weems is the gentleman who runs a show over there and a bunch of other individuals, and so I work with Maryland Inclusive Housing because they're individuals that focus on case management for the client, making sure that the person has all their ducks in a row and is ready to move forward in the purchasing process or the leasing process, have the background history on who the individual is and what their situation is, and so I make sure that I work with Maryland Inclusive Housing so that we bring more people into the fold to make sure that everybody is being heard and understood that everybody is being heard and understood.

Speaker 1:

So here, one of the things that you do is collaborate with others. You work with the families if necessary, if you find that an individual such as your daughter might need some additional assistance. There are other disabilities that don't necessarily need that, but when you do see that, you certainly try to incorporate that and you work with other organizations. I love it. Let me ask you another question, as a realtor again what is a realtor? Or you can do non-profit, but I'll go ask you as a realtor first. As a realtor, do you feel there is a market for universal design homes, accessible homes?

Speaker 2:

Absolutely, because the population is growing, people with disabilities, that's just fact, and so there's definitely a market. The problem I see as a realtor is that the cost of housing is becoming less affordable. We're talking about a group of people that not always I don't want to paint with a broad brush, but we're talking about a demographic that's having a certain level of income. That's here and the price for your leases are up here. In my area alone, 21784 zip code there's only a handful of properties that are available. The starting lease per month was $2,250, $2,250 and the high end one was $4,000. I don't know where they think somebody's going to get that much money to pay on a monthly basis just to walk in the door. So I think I see we really need to address affordable housing for lower income individuals, and that's why I've been paying attention to a garage that's been converted and modified. Those kinds of structures are ideal. If you're thinking about if you were going to have your staff coming to the home on a 24-7 schedule, you want to make sure that you can have some staff quarters available within the vicinity of the actual property, and so those kinds of things that you have to think about. Those kinds of arrangements there's.

Speaker 2:

Also, I saw I think it was Hagerstown where somebody was implementing a new way of looking at mobile homes, which was to say, finding a way to have the foundation of the home attached to the ground and in doing so, creating a unit that has a foundation is considered to be on ground and because the unit's on the ground, technically now it could be subject to land tax.

Speaker 2:

And whenever you use those terms around legislators, that's when you get their attention. So I'm thinking about ways of and there was just a recent survey, I think that's when you get their attention. So I'm thinking about ways of and there was just a recent survey, I think that came to my email inbox where they're doing a land survey here in Carroll County. Those kinds of meetings are what I'm now trying to go to, armed with this information, so that when there's an opportunity for me to walk up to a microphone and get my two cents, I want to do more than just complain. I want to offer solutions based on research that I've done. So that's how I'm approaching this shortage of housing.

Speaker 1:

You just spoke music to my ears, because one of the challenges that I am trying to tackle is data. There is very little data on disability home ownership, and the reason why I say that is this is how they get the number. The only number that I've been able to find is they take, okay, how many individuals are senior citizens 55 or older? And the reason why is because seniors are the largest subgroup in disabilities, although they're only 30%. They're only 30% of the disability community, so that means 70% of the disability community are not senior citizens, but they are the largest subgroup of disabilities. They say, okay, how many people are senior citizens in the United States? And then, how many are homeowners? Because most senior citizens are the largest population of only homes right now and they're like, okay, they take that number, they whittle down the number. Then they say, okay, how many have disabilities? And then that is how they.

Speaker 1:

The only number I've been able to find, that's how the number they are pushing out of these. This is how many people who are disabled who are homeowners. So it's a really false narrative in a lot of the data that they're using, because if you're only starting with 30% of the population, while it is the largest subgroup, you're leaving out 70% and so there's just a lot of data gaps. And so when I'm trying to figure out from an appraisal process of if you universally design this house, how much of return investment do you get, and I can't find any education that is being provided to appraisers on how you appraise a home. That's universal design, it's just there's two camps.

Speaker 1:

If it's not ugly and I don't really notice it it doesn't hurt the value and it may increase the value if there is, like, a hospital or some other medical institution nearby because there's a population there. If it's ugly and it's not near a hospital, then it's going to devalue. Not much of a data-driven sort of black and white perspective. And I love the idea that you're trying to, as far as the affordability aspect of housing, really trying to provide data in general. So I think that just needs to be reexamination to include disabilities into this data driven and what are the numbers that we're using? So I'm just thrilled, bruce, you're really looking into these different types of surveys and coming to these committee meetings to have a solution and to really be a voice. I'm just super happy to see that.

Speaker 2:

Thanks. It's been something that's taking a while to get to this point where I feel comfortable now to go to these legislative meetings. That's because you have to be armed with information, because anybody can complain. It's another thing to come up with a suggestion or a solution, and in order for you to come by that information you have to actually just walk outside the door and just start poking and just see what's out there and talking to people left and right and you can't look at your watch when you do these activities.

Speaker 2:

You're doing it because you know you've got to find answers and there's no definite time. You know that you have to allow yourself. It's been 15 minutes. I didn't find anything in this web search, so we're done for the day. I have to do another 15 minutes tomorrow. Oh, it's a grind. It's a grind, yeah.

Speaker 1:

It's a grind. Let me ask you this If you are a disabled individual and you need to find a realtor, what would you recommend? How should you do that? What would you give advice on what things you should be looking for in a realtor?

Speaker 2:

If you're a person who's disabled. I find that most people in my experience I should say my experience people choose realtors the same way they choose plumbers or electricians. They're looking for referrals. And one of the best ways to do that is calling somebody on the phone and talk to somebody on the phone, sending somebody an email or going on Facebook. My wife had a lot of luck with just going on Facebook and just saying, hey, we're in the market for a one-on-one support for my daughter. Anybody have any suggestions? And that's how we found our one-on-one support through Facebook. So I believe that people are going to do the same thing for a realtor. They're going to ask their friends and colleagues and loved ones hey, I need a realtor. Who do you suggest Now? Trying to find a realtor who would say I specialize in working with somebody with special needs? I don't know what metric is out there that helped point people in a certain direction to find those individuals. But that's especially the reason why I'm personally going to organizations like Target, community Jubilee, the Arc of Carroll County, maryland Work and just reaching out to these organizations Maryland Inclusive Housing.

Speaker 2:

I'm trying to reach out to as many organizations as possible as I can to let them know that, hey, I'm actually choosing this path for my real estate business. I'm not putting billboards on the side of the road, I just would like to talk to some people on your staff. Here's my card and I put you on my email mailing list just keeping you informed of the progress that I'm making, the things that I'm starting a new newsletter at the end of this year as a means of now creating a paper trail, and that's all I can do is speak for myself. I'm creating these paper trails now that I'm sending to individuals and organizations to let them know that I can't give anybody that word advice, but I can't give advice on what somebody would want to do to join a realtor that's specialized in special needs. I'm reaching out to organizations to let them know that if they do know of individuals who are looking for a realtor, that I can show by my deeds alone that I'm the type of person that they may want to talk to on the phone.

Speaker 1:

What questions do you think a disabled individual should be asking a realtor? A realtor don't necessarily advertise that they have worked with clients with disabilities. They don't really advertise, unfortunately. What questions should they be asking the realtor?

Speaker 2:

First, I think I would ask them to prove that their license is current. I'd start there.

Speaker 1:

Okay, good, because you want to make sure it's in compliance Check.

Speaker 2:

Make sure the person actually has the legal means to practice real estate. That's their license. Here's my wallet. I reached inside my wallet with the laminate. There it is.

Speaker 1:

Make sure that she has to see that card.

Speaker 2:

Black and white. Look at the expiration date. Make sure the expiration date hasn't expired. I would start there.

Speaker 2:

Then I would do a, if it's possible. I'd go online and see if there's any information you might be able to find out about the realtor online. If somebody knows who they are, there's accounts, testimonials about how this person has done business before, if they can, for referrals. If you're wanting to do business with somebody, just if you would have consider a surgery, you may want to get a second opinion for a medical procedure. I would do the same thing with the realtor. Hey, do you know one or two people you could refer me to that would speak of you and would testify to the caliber of your personality. Who are you? I don't know who you are. I'd like to know who you are first. I would start there, because you're talking about a transaction that's going to involve thousands and thousands of dollars. You don't want to play with that money. You're not going to Vegas, you're trying to get a lease or purchase.

Speaker 2:

You don't have just money to burn. So I would first want to trust the individual before I do business with them and I'd see if they'd be willing to have a sit down with me and I'm picky as a person now who would have the disability.

Speaker 2:

I'd want to see if the person would be willing to sit down with me and take the time to tell me who they were and ask some questions, because you are essentially interviewing somebody to see if they're worthy of your business. So make sure they are. You want to see their character. You want to see if they make eye contact with you. You want to see if you like their personality. You want to see if they can be trusted. I would start there. There's all kinds of laundry lists that you can consult online that says here's the specific details of what you should be looking for. In a house, anybody can do that. I prefer to start with the person and say make sure you go with the devil. You want to make sure you talk to a person who gets you, who respects you, who has patience, talks to you like you're a person. They don't talk down to you, they don't care about them. You want to feel comfortable around this person because you want to make sure they got your back. So I would start there.

Speaker 1:

Okay, and you said language is important to you. So, from your perspective, what language should an individual be using? Because I've heard aging in place, I've heard universal. If you're trying to see if this realtor can talk the street, you are a disabled individual, you're looking for a lease or buy a home that could be somewhat accessible for you, what language should you be using that resonates with the realtor?

Speaker 2:

You would want to understand. You would want to know if that person understands the concept of universal design. You would want to know if the person understands that when they hear the term house that meet DV, department of Disability Administration, if the house is going to be built to meet DDA specifications, the house that's being built. You want to understand if the person, depending on the person's condition, what they actually need. You would want to speak to the builder. You'd want to be able to say here's what I need in terms of the specifications that are necessary for myself, and that's the only thing I'm concerned about, whether it be the wide hallways or the trays that come down from the cupboard that allow me to pull it down to my level, or shades that close, or there's smart technology in the home that reminds me that, oh, it's 6 pm, it's time for me to take my medication, whatever specifically needs to be done.

Speaker 2:

That's what you want to know if the realtor understands that or not, because the realtor is acting on your behalf. The realtor is your advocate. So you want to know if the realtor is thinking about what your needs, rather than just being able to drop a word here or there that says, oh yeah, I know what fair housing is. I know what the GVA is. That's nice. Do you know what I need, and are you able to convey that to another realtor or a builder, so that the work that they're going to do for me is specifically for my need, not for what everybody else might need, but just what I need?

Speaker 1:

Oh, I love it. I love it because I know my experience is drives me bonkers. Is this idea that for ADA applies in every situation and I'm like? No ADA applies for commercial buildings, things that are open to the public, and if there's state and federal funding for low income, but for private sector housing, where there's no low income and it's not open to the public, the ADA does not apply, and unless it's four units or more, the Federal Housing Act may not even apply. So I do agree that you really need to have that kind of frank conversation with the realtor. So I appreciate that we are coming up to time. Is there anything else you would like to share, bruce?

Speaker 2:

Well, if anybody wants to try to contact me, I have a website. They can go to realtywithvincecom, so there's a way to send me an email or call me on my cell. If anybody wants to reach out to me, I'm always willing to talk to nice people and help in any way I can.

Speaker 1:

And your organization again and contact.

Speaker 2:

So if anybody wants to reach out to me and send a text message or a phone number, I'll just give my cell I'm living on it every day anyway 410-948-9857. That's my cell and I take text messages to that number as well. So whether you want to talk about the Helping Hand Foundation or you want to talk about real estate, just give me a buzz and I'm always available for a conversation.

Speaker 1:

HorizontalHousescom is the hub for all things related to disability home ownership. You will find my blog, this podcast, my book and how my consulting services can help real estate agents or housing developers market and tap into the largest minority group, the disability community. Please help me continue this exploration of disability home ownership by connecting through my Facebook page. Remember, sharing our collective experiences will allow us each to lower the kitchen sink but raise the bar for disability home ownership. Thank you.