Accessibility Is Home podcast
Welcome to AI Home podcast, the first exclusive podcast on real estate resources and independent living strategies for the disability community. Why? Because Accessibility Is Home. Brought to you by Angela Fox, blogger, and author of “My blue front door”. Ms. Fox will be interviewing Realtors and home improvement contractors who are both disability friendly and others who may have a lot more to learn. Ms. Fox will also provide takeaways for anyone wanting to be a homeowner with a disability.
Accessibility Is Home podcast
From Benefits to Bricks: Disability Homeownership with a Chartered Special Needs Consultant
Navigating the complex intersection of disability, homeownership, and financial planning requires specialized knowledge that few possess. In this eye-opening conversation, Hannah Magma shares her expertise as a Chartered Special Needs Consultant—one of fewer than 500 nationwide among over 300,000 financial advisors. Hannah, who is both a wheelchair user and parent of a medically complex child, brings personal experience to her professional insights. She explains how ABLE accounts work as powerful financial tools that allow disabled individuals to save beyond typical benefit program limits without losing eligibility. For housing specifically, these accounts offer unique advantages over special needs trusts, particularly for handling rent or mortgage payments without reducing Supplemental Security Income benefits.
The conversation challenges common misconceptions about disability and finances. Whether you're disabled, caring for someone with a disability, or simply planning for an uncertain future, this conversation offers valuable insights into creating financial security while maintaining benefits.
Join us at HorizontalHouses.com to continue exploring disability homeownership and find resources to help lower barriers while raising standards for accessible living.
About Thrivent
Thrivent is a diversified financial services organization that helps people achieve financial clarity, enabling lives full of meaning and gratitude. Thrivent and its subsidiary and affiliate companies serve more than 2.3 million clients, offering advice, insurance, investments, banking and generosity products and programs online and through financial advisors and independent agents nationwide. Thrivent is a Fortune 500 company with $179 billion in assets under management/advisement (as of 12/31/23). Thrivent carries ratings from independent rating agencies which demonstrate the strength and stability of the organization, including an A++ rating from AM Best; an Aa2 rating from Moody's Investors Service; and an AA+ rating from S&P Global Ratings. Ratings are based on Thrivent's financial strength and claims-paying ability, but do not apply to investment product performance. For information on these ratings, visit the rating agency's website. Dividends are not guaranteed. For more information about Thrivent, visit Thrivent.com or find us on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn.
Thrivent provides advice and guidance through its Financial Planning Framework that generally includes a review and analysis of a client’s financial situation. A client may choose to further their planning engagement with Thrivent through its Dedicated Planning Services (an investment advisory service) that results in written recommendations for a fee. Thrivent and its financial advisors and professionals do not provide legal, accounting, or tax advice. Consult your attorney or tax professional.
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Welcome to AI Home Podcast, the first podcast for real estate resources and independent living strategies for the disability community. Why? Because accessibility is home. Hi, I'm Angela Fox, blogger, author and your host. Now this is Angela Fox and I am sitting in my accessible wheelchair bathroom because at HorizontalHousescom, we know accessibility to a home goes beyond the bathroom. I have the fabulous guest named Hannah Magma, who is going to be providing us some information in regards to being a chartered special needs consultant. And for those joining us via my YouTube channel, I'd like to briefly describe what I look like. I am a middle-aged white woman with brown hair. I'm in an electric wheelchair with my headphones, I've got a pink striped shirt on short sleeve and I am literally in my panty cap.
Speaker 2:Hi everybody, thanks for having me today. Angela, I have say chin length brown hair, wearing a green jacket with a navy dress on under my green jacket.
Speaker 1:Thanks so much for having me and today a little bit about you personally as well as professionally.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm here in Northeastern Ohio. I've been a financial advisor for just about 12 years, Married three kids. I also am a wheelchair user. I've been a wheelchair user for the last four to five years but prior to that used various other mobility aids. So rollator, AFOs, whatever you need to do to be able to go about your day. So certainly, around COVID, I did a lot of advocacy as far as having our public school system safe for kids and my son to be able to attend safety measures like masks. I've also done some federal level advocacy with the ELSA bill and working on trying to get that passed.
Speaker 2:The ELSA bill and working on trying to get that passed.
Speaker 2:It still has not passed yet, but that is a health care bill that will close some gaps that exist out there currently which, for example, if you have a congenital disability maybe affects your palate or your teeth, for example, it's fairly common for your health insurance that's dealing with your teeth.
Speaker 2:You need to go talk to your dentist, but I think many of us might know or maybe we don't that dental insurance is often not as comprehensive as your healthcare insurance and so for individuals, particularly that have maybe ectodermal dysplasia, that might not have adult teeth or might be missing baby teeth. You're having your teeth really important to your health for many reasons, so working on closing that gap that those individuals could have their health insurance cover it versus dental insurance. It's inadequate and that's a small example of what that health care bill aims to do. Adequate, and that's a small example of what that health care bill aims to do, but that's something that's really important to me, for my family as well as for people that I care about, is making sure they get the care that they need through their health insurance.
Speaker 1:So much of what's done comes from health insurance for disabled individuals and I use the language For those who may you and I but for those who are not, stop doing a health fixing your wheelchair is really, if something stops, meaning you can't get brand brand new time at all. And one thing about what these are are not covered is super important, which is why I was so glad I ran into you, hannah. Oh gosh, I think it was like scope and the perspective on what you need, whether it's on medical conditions you may have or your home, and I'm really excited for you to talk a little bit about what your role is. I'm not providing legal advice here, just like I'm a lawyer. I'm not providing legal advice here, but I think you telling, like folks, what is a chartered needs consultant?
Speaker 2:What is that? A chartered special needs consultant, which I carry that designation. It's available to individuals who are attorneys, cpas, financial advisors I would say most commonly financial advisors. I don't think I've ever met an attorney with a designation. I do know of one CPA that has a designation. There could be more that are out there. It's considered a rare designation. When I received the designation several years ago and you get it from the American College of Financial Services, I remember my instructor saying at that time, including our class, that would have been less than 500 of us in the entire country that held the designation For general financial advisors throughout the country. There was something like over 300,000 at that time. It's such a specialized designation there's not a lot of us that carry it, but it's the only designation that financial advisors can get that specifically address some of the planning considerations individuals with disabilities or special health care concerns might have.
Speaker 1:I ran into you years ago because I could share a kind of experience. I bought my house at one level house and trying to figure out, like I knew the ABLE Act was coming and, financially, how to plan out whether it's because my newly bought CPAs and I'm DCA and they will, you're not legally tax right on anything other than they. How do I yeah, at least, and maybe it's listening when it work with CPA not gain all the assistance that you need? It's because it's only 500 of you. So how special is that I was able to run into you and you can some of your wisdom with the audience. Is there anything more to provide about some of the things that you do about if you are a chartered special needs consultant?
Speaker 2:So I can't speak for all of the chartered special needs consultant designated holders. I can only really speak to myself, because I think we all work slightly differently. For myself personally, I'm also the parent of a medically complex child myself. Personally, I'm also the parent of a medically complex child, so I know the benefit that my child receives is really, really important, not just as a family as a whole, but the financial benefit that comes to maybe not having to pay out of pocket for his G-tube formula, for example, can have a really big impact for family.
Speaker 2:I work quite a bit on not just federal-level benefits, but state-level benefits, local benefits. We're not attorneys, so I can't draft a special needs trust for you, but I do know some of the language that we want to make sure that we see. How does that trust work as part of your plan? What should it pay for? What shouldn't it pay for? How much do we need to fund into that trust? When do we use an ABLE account? Do you need an ABLE account? How do those coordinate?
Speaker 2:It could be retirement planning for three people or some individuals I work with who are on benefits. It's how do we retain those benefits? If you do want to work a little bit. What are some strategies that we might look at to accomplish?
Speaker 2:So there's really a whole scope of things that I have worked with clients on, their school benefits, for example so I do not attend IEP meetings or things of that nature but I've had clients that have paid quite a bit of money out of pocket for private tutoring because they didn't feel their kids were getting all the benefit that they needed in school. They didn't feel like they were getting all the services and support, and so I did help the families with the language they needed to request more services, to request an independent educator evaluation. As a result, though, that family was able to get that educator evaluation granted, which identified more needs that they did not know about previously, which meant they also did start to get the appropriate services in place. It's a very different kind of financial planning than people probably think about, and this type of plan really is much more complex and a much broader scope than people are familiar with.
Speaker 1:I think I love the fact sample because I was before we had to offline. I was just thinking a advising give me your Baker can. What benefit while we see much? Oh, you're talking about the black and real quickly, before I pitch that thought, could you quickly tell the audience what the ABLE Act is, because I know you've mentioned it and I've mentioned it?
Speaker 2:But essentially what it does is it allows individuals who might be on programs that are resource-driven to have an account that can hold more, maybe the $2,000 limitation, but essentially these accounts it's after-tax money. It goes into the ABLE account. Some states do give a state tax credit. That money can be invested. You can use a bank account within that option, just depending on your state and what options are available. And then when you take any money out, it has to be used for what's called qualified disability expenses. Those are really meant to be widely construed to benefit the individual. So the individual who the ABLE account is created for couldn't go out and buy mom and dad gifts from their ABLE account, but they could buy themselves clothes, food, things of that nature. Every state is a little bit different. Not every state yet has an ABLE account. If you are in a state that doesn't have one. Many states allow for enrollment of out-of-state individuals and ABLE accounts may or may not have Medicaid recovery. It depends on the state that you are in. Can you give?
Speaker 1:an example. We're talking about individuals for housing, whether you get housing or have. Have you had any examples Housing?
Speaker 2:expenses. If you use the ABLE, then you could get up to $100,000 into that ABLE account, not lose benefits. If the account goes over $100,000, it can cause benefits until the account value drops back. So housing expenses utilized from an ABLE account. There's a lot of reasons why you'd want to use an ABLE account over potentially a special needs trust to pay those housing expenses. If somebody's on SSI, so Supplemental Security Income SSI has rules about housing or food being received for less than fair market value For those individuals. If they're on SSI and let's say they're going to rent an apartment and they have a special needs trust that has money in it, they would not want to use their special needs trust to pay for their rent. If they're receiving SSI is it could reduce down their SSI by roughly a third, whereas an ABLE account does not have those same rules. So an ABLE account could pay for their rent. It would not reduce down their SSI. The one nuance of an ABLE account is any money you take out of your ABLE account for housing expenses must be used in that month. You cannot carry it over. Also, anybody who's taking money out of their ABLE account to pay for rent or mortgage just make sure you take it out, you apply it towards that rent, towards that mortgage, in that same month that you don't have a holdover on it.
Speaker 2:I have had clients who have wanted to use an ABLE account for a down payment on a house. There are two entities that really audit ABLE accounts the IRS or Social Security. We might have them reach out to the state to verify it's going to be okay. That ABLE account needs to be used for the disabled individual's benefit. That may or may not be a problem. They make sure that you confirm that if you have a situation that might be a little bit more gray, so you don't incur any issues on that front. If it's a single individual, it's their house. They're buying an accessible house. That's a little bit of an easier answer versus buying a house.
Speaker 1:That might also benefit some other people and that's under, if they have Social Security, that you're concerned about them losing their benefits because it's really twofold.
Speaker 2:Ssi looks at your room and board, your housing, your food, if you're getting that for less than share market value or free. But there are people that might use ABLE accounts that are not on SSI. Maybe they're on SSDI, Maybe they're on other benefits that they need to protect, such as waivers or things of that nature. So just making sure that ABLE account, even if you're not on SSI, you make sure that when you're using that money it's being used for the benefit of the individual with a disability. If it could be construed to be beneficial to somebody else, really want to review that and make sure it's going to be okay so you don't incur any penalties from the ABLE account.
Speaker 1:It can be inferred and interpreted and I think IOS focus. It's exciting, but it can be very confusing, so I'm always interested in other people's perspective and how they use it. I definitely think it needs to consult help with housing or aging place. Is there any considerations about making housing accessible for visitors of the home? Considerations about making housing?
Speaker 2:accessible for visitors of the home. Yeah, so homeownership's a real goal for lots of people, but within the disabled community it's much more difficult on several fronts. So I wasn't always disabled. I've been disabled for about nine years now and I will tell you, as someone who went through the home buying experience as an able-bodied individual the normal financial consideration that I could just look at houses that fit my budget and I didn't have to think about how many stairs there were or doorways or anything of that nature. And now we purchased the house that we currently live in after my disability occurred.
Speaker 2:Literally, my husband and I immediately would only look at ranches. We would not look at two-story houses. Even if a ranch had a step or two, we could get a ramp, we could pay extra money to put a ramp in. But you start to look at structural stuff. So if it wasn't already accessible, really as a disabled individual, we had to look at what would that house cost? But then what additional costs would we have to do? The things that we would do to make it accessible, put ramps in, make doorways wider, roll in showers, things of that nature. We are starting to see people plan and do more age-in-place homes because I think people really realize the more accessible your house is, the longer you're likely to be able to stay in the house is, the longer you're likely to be able to stay in the house. So we are starting to see some of that naturally come about Within this segment.
Speaker 2:It can also be individuals who maybe are on housing voucher. What options might they have beyond a traditional home buyer? So really quite a bit out there to consider beyond just does a house have a ramp? Does a house not have a ramp? We might also go does a trust need to own the house? Does a trust not need to own the house? What are the things that we should look at?
Speaker 1:What is the benefits of putting a house within a trust?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I would definitely say there's no hard fast rule that everybody should do it or shouldn't do it. But I will often see family. Maybe mom and dad own a house and their adult child has a special needs trust that mom and dad created for them. Child has a special needs trust that mom and dad created for them and maybe it doesn't have any money in it while mom and dad are alive. Maybe they want their adult child to be able to retain the home, stay in the home for their entire lifetime.
Speaker 2:They might choose to put the house in the trust A the trustable to assist with needed maintenance on the home and also just to make sure it's not an asset that could be recovered by Medicaid. Maybe there are other kids that if the disabled individual were to pass away, they'd want to make sure the house would go too. So there can be a lot of reasons why somebody might consider it. But we also have clients who don't have the house in the trust. You know, the right answer for one person is the right answer for that person. We can also talk about if the trust does need to own the house. If the attorney has really got that to the best solution, how much do we need to fund into that trust then? How does that work?
Speaker 1:What does that need to look like? Yeah, I appreciate that Depends on the situation, but those are the possibilities of when people may or may not do it. I mean it's very situational. You kind of said how a consultant is kind of a concierge in a way, in my terms a concierge of addressing issues that individuals with disabilities outside of just the scope of financial advisor. So, with that in mind, what are some resources out there to either buy a home or pay for the modifications because they became disabled and have their home? Have you ever dealt with that and been able to provide any resources?
Speaker 2:I would say very, very state specific. So, for example, waiver system depending on the state, depending on the individual, could be a resource to help pay for those home modification. So waiver really born out of the Olmstead Act stating that individuals with disabilities should be able to live in the community that they desire and receive the resources that they leave within the community. Waiver programs can do bathroom modifications, can put ramps in, can put stair chairs in, can do things like that. Sometimes not everyone's going to qualify for a waiver or maybe they're going to sit on a waiver wait list for a really long time. It depends on there's. Sometimes we'll even look is there a local funding that might be available? Is there any other funding that could exist out there that could help that individual?
Speaker 1:One thing that I try to guide individuals, whether the real estate agents or individuals who are disabled and make modifications to the home, is this idea of doing it in a mindful way to bring value to the audience about how a house investment can increase by making it accessible or universally designed.
Speaker 2:Look at, depending on the improvement somebody might do, if there are any tax benefits that they might be able to capture, such as medical expense deductions, capital improvement costs if it's related to making a house accessible. So we do look at that stuff, we do calculate it. It also helps to determine what assets we might use to pay for those things. We might work with a client who doesn't have any disabilities yet, but maybe that's on the horizon, knowing that there's some sort of genetic factor that places them at a higher risk. Or clients who are starting to get older, potentially, and they're starting to think of some of that investment in a home. That certainly is something that has come up.
Speaker 2:I tend to see, just as an individual who lives in an accessible home, who has lots of friends who are in this community and friends who are not in this community. We hear quite often, because our house is a big ranch house on a street with double front doors and zero entry of just the number of people that put a bid on this house when it went on the market, strictly because it was accessible. So people are looking for that. If you're building a house and you're not disabled today, you never know when you get to join this club. So some consideration into what could I do to make sure that's an option for me. Whether I build that as an option today or down the road, people do look for that that is an option today or down the road.
Speaker 1:People do look for that. There is that buying power, there is marketability, whether or not disabled now or, like you said, they are thinking. So I just love to hear real life examples and that's part of the reason why I do this podcast, because I can shout to the wind and the disabled community has always tried to get Congress to help pass a federal law with clients, except the housing to be accessible.
Speaker 2:I have clients that are going into nursing homes. I also do elder care planning and I work in several states throughout the country. So even though I'm in Northeastern Ohio, I work with clients in various states, virtually through Zoom. We're seeing nursing home costs be $14,000, depending where you're at, depending on your needs, and so you're right. We're seeing more and more families fight to stay at home because that is an exponential cost and it is less expensive to stay in your home and hire in-health not in every case, but in many cases versus going into a nursing home, even for individuals without disabilities. That can derail a retirement plan or an estate plan if you are faced with going into a nursing home early.
Speaker 1:And to even add, I would suggest something like for every year that you are staying home, you get additional years of quality life, that this idea that nursing homes are somehow more safer for you, it's really not. You just get the call that you need because you have to be isolated, exposed to more diseases. We saw that during COVID. I think it's hard for people to break out a mortgage. You have to pay for somebody to come into the home. I do have a question, because I'm always about data. Have you done any research at a financial data about the disability community discretionary income that they have?
Speaker 2:Actually, the American Institute for Research did a study that shows the disability community has the same amount of discretionary income related to any other marginal community. People often don't think of the forced poverty, essentially, that many disabled individuals have to live in. But I'm disabled, I'm not on SSI, I'm not on SSDI, I have extra money I'd like to spend, but if you've got stairs in front of your business, I'm not going to be able to get in there to spend that money. And I don't think people always realize that we do have a similar amount of spending power as some other marginal communities.
Speaker 2:We're also a community that anyone could end up joining at any point in their life, which is fairly uncommon. You could go, oh, I'm never going to be disabled, and then in the blink of an eye it could. And so really the advocacy that we do is not just for us, it might be for you, it might be for your loved one. I've often said, if you want to learn how to advocate, really well, talk to a disabled person. Even if that disabled person's never done like official advocacy or worked on a serious bill, chances are they've fought insurance before and they're probably going to know how to do it better than just about anybody else out there.
Speaker 1:I think in cases that want people to have a concept of a disabled community being in poverty.
Speaker 1:Is that all based on numbers and your perspective? And what I mean by that is I'm working with real estate agents and I want to deal with vouchers and I'm talking about the sector housing disabled. I think a lot of individuals have this belief of poverty level is because, technically, if you are disabled, you have a higher probability of poverty compared to other minorities. If you look at the population of itself, you know there's a bigger chunk of population that's in poverty compared to African Americans or women. But the problem with that, if you just stop there and while nonprofits that's what they focus on hey, you're more likely to be disabled if you're disabled compared to other minorities, population proportion of poverty. And they use that to falsify addressing need. And that's great. But the problem is that's the only narrative.
Speaker 2:If you think about it from a personal perspective, if you go to a doctor, often the exam table is not accessible and if you can't get up on that table they might not be able to do a full exam. I came from the healthcare world and you would sometimes see doctors nerdy, hesitate to ask a wheelchair user to take their shoes off, to be able to look at their feet or to do things like that, because of this perceived inconvenience. Every time I go to just my annual doctor checkup, they'll say are you able to get on the scale or do you not want to get on the scale? And I'm like I am fortunate that I can stand if I'm holding on to something for a period of time.
Speaker 2:It's really important to have an accurate weight. If you need medication, the right dosage. It's just little things like that. Yeah, I could see where our health care may not be as comprehensive as it should be. I have a wonderful doctor now. That's my caveat. He is very proactive with doing everything, but I've absolutely seen cases where we're not even going to try to get you on the exam table, or we're not going to look at your feed, or we're not going to do the full scope of exam that we would have done for somebody else who is able-bodied.
Speaker 1:Yep, and it's why HHS finally updated just this past year the 504 rule, requiring now any facility that receives funds for the federal government to make sure that the equipment is accessible for the disability. And that has never been done in figures, so probably going to take another 15 years Everything to actually that way. It's funny. People often ask me me with all the additional maintenance and headache that you can have when owning a home, like why didn't I just rent? And I'm like I can make my house fully accessible to meet my needs. It is like my oasis from an unaccessible world.
Speaker 2:My home is fully accessible to me. I can do everything I need to do in my house. But I do public speaking engagements and I've done those throughout the country and I tell my husband sometimes, when we've traveled, I feel my disability more, not because I am more disabled, because my environment is not accessible. So the things that my husband wouldn't need to help me with at home, he now all of a sudden has to help me with. It's the problem that grab bars are at the wrong height or doorways are too narrow or there's a step or whatever that might be is a really good example of the environment is what the barrier is. It's not my inability to walk.
Speaker 1:We have not talked about. What are some factors, questions should an individual be looking when trying to find a charter? Special needs consultant.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So, like I said, I can't speak for how other people do it. I think it's a very important that it is. If it's not the sole focus of their practice, it is a major focus of their practice. So this is really the only planning I do. I still have general financial planning clients, but I'd say probably almost all my new business happens to be in this space and has been in this space for many years, because the rules change. So if you only help someone occasionally, you might not be as up to date with rule, because I have worked with so many clients in so many states now there's little nuances that you learn. Every case that you work on, every client that you work with, their scenario is very unique to them.
Speaker 2:I'm not just an advisor who feels a passion in this space. I'm also a family who has had to deal with stuff in this space my 10-year-old's medically complex. I'm a wheelchair user, so I don't just understand it from a professional perspective. I understand it from a personal perspective. One thing that makes me a little bit different is I have some perspective there and some understanding. I've had to do state-level appeals for my son. I know what that looked like. I've worked in these impossible systems. So I would say that the biggest thing that somebody should look for is a charter special needs consultant who this is it's not a major focus of their practice is the only focus of their practice. It should be a bulk of what their planning is annually to make sure that their skills are sharp. Just because any other skill that right, the more often you're doing it, the better your skill, the more up-to-date you are on the planning that needs to be done, the rules that might change things of that nature.
Speaker 1:Okay. As a chartered special consultant. Do you have a certificate or thing that you can request? Yeah, and.
Speaker 2:I have ongoing annual continuing education that I need to do. I have ongoing ethics requirements I need to do. I have ongoing ethics requirements. In order to pull the designation, you must have been a financial advisor for a period of time, or an attorney or a CPA. I have other designations as well. Beyond that, you have to complete a course of study. You have several tests that you have to take. You have to meet a minimum requirement to be able to get it.
Speaker 1:Where can someone go look for a child special needs consultant in their state?
Speaker 2:Now I know that there are some designation search engines that do exist out there and I would also say you don't necessarily need something that's in your backyard. I'm in northeastern Ohio, but I work with clients in Colorado and Florida, pennsylvania and throughout the country. You can also search CHSNC designation holder, but don't let your location limit you, because there's not a lot of us. You know, when I started work in Colorado at the time, there just wasn't any that were close to where the client needed them, because there is a large integrated housing community out there. So don't just limit it to who's in your backyard. You can also look who might be a good fit for me, really anywhere who might be licensed in your state.
Speaker 1:Okay, Anything else you'd like to share with the audience?
Speaker 2:I think podcasts are really important. This is a community that anybody can become a part of at any point in their life, so the more accessible the world is today, if that does happen to you, it will be easier for you one day. That's really my goal is to make the world a little bit easier for people like me and for my son, corbin. He hopefully will not have the same struggles that I have to experience, because I've worked really hard to try to remove those barriers or do the things that I could do a little bit more accessible.
Speaker 1:Well, I love doing these podcasts because I get to, like yourself, make those advocacy and asking for change, but then to be able to provide a service at the same time. And that's what you're doing as Chartered Special Needs Consultant. Horizontalhousescom is the hub for all things related to disability home ownership. You will find my blog, this podcast, my book and how my consulting services can help real estate agents or housing developers market and tap into the largest minority group, the disability community. Please help me continue this exploration of disability home ownership by connecting through my Facebook page. Remember, sharing our collective experiences will allow us each to lower the kitchen sink but raise the bar for disability home ownership. Thank you, you.